What separates a graduate program that ticks a box from one that genuinely shapes an organisation’s future leaders?
In this episode, Nathy Gaffney sits down with Jake James and Amanda Hall, Phuel’s General Manager of Sales, to unpack the difference between simply rotating graduates through a business and actually developing them. Jake draws a clear line early on: a graduate program is the intake and rotation structure, while a graduate development program is the deliberate, intentional layer on top: the investment that turns exposure into genuine capability.
Amanda brings the strategic view, framing graduate development as a talent pipeline strategy rather than a nice to have. She’s candid about where the real opportunity sits: not just with graduates themselves, but in that often overlooked middle leadership layer, where fresh perspective can genuinely shift how a business tackles old problems.
The conversation gets interesting when it turns to what graduates actually need. Jake references Mark Williams’ research on human connection to explain why graduates consistently push back against virtual only onboarding: they want community, and organisations that try to shortcut that connection struggle to retain talent. He’s also refreshingly honest about the risk of graduates being squeezed into “the way we do things here” rather than being asked what they see with fresh eyes.
Amanda and Jake share genuinely compelling proof points, including an organisation where an all graduate hackathon team beat experienced staff teams outright: a reminder of what happens when businesses actually trust emerging talent with real problems rather than token projects. They’re equally clear that this only works when leaders are genuinely bought in, not just paying lip service while grads get treated as inexpensive labour.
The episode doesn’t shy away from generational tension either. Jake pushes back on the “oh, that generation” mindset directly, arguing it’s both unfair and short sighted given how much graduates are already achieving before they even walk in the door. Amanda’s take on ROI is grounded: the return isn’t a training day, it’s retention, upward development and graduates who become the mid-level and senior leaders an organisation didn’t have to hire externally.
This episode is worth your time if you’re building or rethinking a graduate program and want it to be a genuine leadership pipeline, not just an onboarding exercise.
